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Copilot Lvl 3
Message 1 of 13

Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

Hi.
Over the last week I have had an idea growing that I think will simplify peoples overview of their cryptos/tokens in a very simple way. I have a lot of notes of features but I cant program or dont know any programmer. Would love to find people to create this software and would also in the spirit of cryptos make it an open source project.

The very basic idea is that with information from blockchain wallets and CSV files from exchanges it takes all that information and puts the information easy to follow, calculates the profit and then can export the information to a document.


I have more features in mind that will make it easy to get an overview and simple to use. Again a simple software because the crypto world needs simple solutions to lower the threshold for new users.


With all the buying, selling, trading coins back and forth of different exchanges its a problem to get an overview. Spreadsheet can work but if there have been a couple of trades back and forth between BTC, ETH and all its tokens calulating all that in a spreadsheet is hard. It is a big mess of information that for a normal person will get panic attack thinking of. And also when governments want taxes to be paid I believe crypto owners want a simple solution.


I dont know were to find people interested in programing software so I try here on Github.

12 Replies
Copilot Lvl 3
Message 2 of 13

Re: Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

Hi Makrole,

 

do you have any kind of White Paper outlining your Crypto-Keeper concept? Such as which coins/assets your concept connects with (some or all), and which taxation jurisdicitons are applied (USA, EU, Canada, UK, Australia, South Korea, Russia, etc)? How will this project be utilitised by people; as an App, an API in the cloud, or some kind of funky DAPI with tax returns on the blockchain?

 

There are already a couple of similar paid-for websites that achieve the same functionality as what you outline. And some wallets also do the heavy lifting when it comes to producing capital gains reports. So what benefits do you hope to achieve by building an open source for free project? Is this your personal, school or university project, or do you have some kind of fintech start-up strategy in mind?

 

I certainly agree accounting for crypto trading is a minefield, especially with the dramatic volatility in fiat versus crypto rates. Some governments consider crypto is cash (just like holiday money), others make it liable for capital gains tax (but not losses), and others restrict the trading of crypto (except oligarchs).

 

A Google search reveals plenty of people willing to give advice on accounting for cypto (see YouTube), but they're not giving any real assistance. Under the hood, there will be a lot of complexity involved here... but indeed, a simple turn key accounting solution for crypto traders is what most people are in need of.

Copilot Lvl 3
Message 3 of 13

Re: Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

Hi.

Thanks for your comments and I will try to answer.

 

I dont have any White Paper, just couple of pages of notes of features. As you are asking for I have to produce a more detailed description.

 

The idea is that is going to be a simple program that takes the information from the blockchain, CSV files and some users added information makes the basic calulations that can export that data to a document used in example tax. No tax jurisdiciton in the program itself. The exported document can then late be used to calculate taxes.

 

The program will run on the local machine, MacOS/Windows/Linux but have backup features online storage as Dropbox and other. Online for me is too complicated, more passwords and depended on other peoples services. If their is online services that allow programs to store data with just add account name and password to access the online data storage would be a nice feature but that is in the lower priority I think.

 

But this is program that will not be used daily or probaly not even weekly, just to keep record of transaction and trades so using it on pads and phones is low priority for me right now.

 

I havnt found any program or website that have the feature for crypto currencies as I mention with the simple import of data. As you say their is wallets that have some features but I dont know if they support importing data from other wallets, exchanges, personal notes and manually added transations of trades. Add BTC, ETH, LTC, NEO and other wallets and also CSV files and the program shows the transations between wallets and exchanges to calculate dollar value or other local currency. To get an overview of the cryptos and tokens users have and also give historical record.

 

This is a personal project, no school or university and no fintech. I have this idea and Im looking for interesed people who can program, knows what language is best, how to make the program simple to use, a GUI that works on all platforms and more. I have no experience in this area.

 

"I certainly agree accounting for crypto trading is a minefield, especially with the dramatic volatility in fiat versus crypto rates. ........"

This is were my idea somes in. When bought or sold the program calculates the new avarage price in USD or other currency. With not getting in to how tax laws are differente over the world the program only gets all the information and shows gains, losses, trades. If BTC is sold on one exchange it takes the USD price from that exchange to get so exact as possible and if that isnt possible it takes the avarage from CoinMarketCap or other site like that.

 

"A Google search reveals plenty of people willing to give advice on accounting for cypto (see YouTube), but they're not giving any real assistance. Under the hood, there will be a lot of complexity involved here... but indeed, a simple turn key accounting solution for crypto traders is what most people are in need of."

You got it! That is exactly were this program comes. It takes the data and then it can be taken to a local person that knows the laws in your country.

 

I have never done something like this and if people are interested in supporting this project I would be glad. I will do my best to write down my idea in a document. This program will help a lot of people with their crypto mess.

Copilot Lvl 3
Message 4 of 13

Re: Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

Makrole,

 

I hope you get a chance to pubish some of your ideas.

 

I have been taking a look at some of the blockchain explorer api's and finding out exactly what information can be obtained for free. Most api's have free datasets ( which you can read on CMC ) and a paid for ones, including the historic data. But not all api's produce identical results, especially as market-cap is open to interpretation. Only the quantity of crypto on the block is identical - which is kind of the idea of distributed ledgers :-)

 

Also many api's are in a beta state (loads here on Github), and are meant for a centralised server or service to run them; your notion is a local machine 'app', which means supporting lots of different device platforms - IoS, Android, Win10, Linux, etc. So any api code would need porting to a local machine methodology.

 

Maybe... would it be nice if the exchanges 'emitted' a standarized transaction receipt/certificate; this could be a signed JSON file containing all of the relavent need to know information about the transaction - such as federal taxes paid and the actual exchange rates applied. Being signed, this file is thus immutable, storable and very auditable* This file is then imported (dragged and dropped) into any accounts package. Anyone know of such a thing??

 

* Had a conversation with an accountant about auditing crypto? Said, "don't even go there."

Copilot Lvl 3
Message 5 of 13

Re: Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

Hello again.

Sorry for that I havnt replied for many weeks. Lot of things have come up in life and this had to get lower priority for some time.

 

Thanks for your answer and your research. I dont know coding but of what I can understand of what you have written my idea has now got more solid. The document is almost done for first public alpha release. A document to publish my idea and find people that "gets it", can help to polish the idea and give new ideas and also can help create this software.

 

Going back and forth between local running software and web service. The benefit for running web service is one platform running everything but the bad is governments may want customer information. Local running has the benefit that the data is in users hands.

 

My idea now is a free and a paid version. Free version use free services and paid get the detailed information from exchanges historical prices on cryptos. This paid for can be a centralised server tool that users software connects to and get the requested data but as much as possible run on users side to make it as independent as possible.

 

I see the need for a tool like this. Simple tool that makes it easy for users to get an overview of their cryptos / tokens with the use of the information from the blockchain and potentially some manually added data.

Copilot Lvl 3
Message 6 of 13

Re: Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

From what you say this might function as some kind of peer-to-peer architecture?

Anyway, looking forwards to reading your white paper.

Copilot Lvl 3
Message 7 of 13

Re: Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

Long time again. Have now released the first draft.

 

Have been brainstorming how to make it as simple for users and developers. I changed my view to make it a service on the net, simple for the user. But I'm not a programer and can not say what is easyer in the long run. Online webbased service or users run software on their computors that connect to online service to be able go get access to accurate data as exact price in USD of currencies/tokens at exchanges when users bought or sold them.

 

I hope people after reading this first draft of the document and can see my idea and give feedback.

 

http://block-keeping.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Block-Keeping-Document-2018-04-02.pdf

Copilot Lvl 3
Message 8 of 13

Re: Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

Makrole,

 

thanks for publishing your draft whitepaper. Just a couple of quick thoughts:

 

I suggest the web service is an API (run on Amazon etc) that fetches required blockchain data, packages the data and then delivers it to the users device, in a standard format. But the users private data never leaves their local device, where it remains stored in an encrypted state (even though the user has their recovery PIN written on a PostIt note!). May I also suggest that software developers 'sandbox' processes to prevent memory attacks. And overall, the 'system' defines the European General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) as it's baseline for both cyber security and data privacy?

 

Any thoughts on what a screen might look like - a mock up?

 

And does your project have a name?

 

PS You are covering crypto currencies, any thoughts on crypto assets?

Copilot Lvl 3
Message 9 of 13

Re: Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

As going back and forth between web service and running on local machine, the best solution is local because then the user is not dependent on external service. Sandboxing and securing users data as much as possible. Your ideas are great and seems you see what I see! Security for the user is the most important!

 

No design mockup. Im not a designer, creative isnt my best part but when I see a design I know if it is good or can get better.

 

Name I was thinking of is Block-Keeping or Blockkeeping, hence the domain name. Did get another one also. A name I got from reading your writing I think.

 

Dont know differense between currencies and assets. I think if currencies and tokens. Include all that data in one simple software.

 

BUT.... Today I did see two websites that does the same thing I was thinking of.

https://www.cointracker.io

https://cointracking.info

 

So........... I dont know if the idea here is unique enough to find people to start the project. I dont have the energy. Hoped other interested people would get my idea, run with it, they maybe make some money for the service I help polish it on the side.

 

If this would be a local running software with as few dependencies (hosting...) as possible, simple to use, and offer as much features as possible with a much lower price when I can see the benefit if this.

 

Started playing with CoinTracking and it dont support NEO or OMG. But the platform forces users to pay to be able to import LTC wallet.

 

 

I got my idea one year to late?

 

 

Edit:

Have tried CoinTracking and CoinTracker for a few minutes and they dont fit the bill. CoinTracking is too complicated and CoinTracker is too simple. CoinTracking gives good overview and CoinTracker is simple to understand and manage.

Copilot Lvl 3
Message 10 of 13

Re: Blockchain bookkeeping for crypto owners

Just a quick thought for your project: Some countries regard cryptos as being the same as money made from paper and metal; in other words the holders coins are a kind of legal tender. However, in many crypto-sceptic western countries, cryptos are regarded as intangible assets, and are accounted for as per tangibles like shares and bonds.

 

So... when you buy for example a shirt with 0.001BTC, in some jurisdictions the transaction is exactly the same as using a 20 Euro note. Which is easy to account for. And is also what Satoshi had in mind when he/she/it invented all of this :robotmad:.

 

However, in the other countries, cryptos attract capital gains tax because, the expenditure of 0.001BTC on the shirt is not a retail sale-purchase, but is regarded as the disposal of (a fraction of) an asset. Thus the capital gain/loss has to be accounted for. From the users point of view, the system needs to calculate the average fair market price of the users crypto holding, in US dollars, over the last financial year, and then do the math of how much that shirt transaction really cost them! Messy.

 

Think, imagine paying for a Starbucks coffee with a fraction of an Ikea share, and then asking your accountant to do the math?!  :smileyfrustrated:

 

+++ EDIT +++ Googling around, some cryptos are chargeable under a countries general rules of foreign exchange. Then some jurisdictions plan to charge VAT/TVA on top of coin transactions. So an application needs to scope for these circumstances too?

 

Another question no-one has an answer for is, what happens if you've been gifted or are gifting crypto? Such as when coins are sent to random crypto-vloggers for, pas example, giving opinions on BitConnect?

When it comes to finding a Ziet Geist for crypto bookkeeping, there's as many questions and answers as their are accountants. And there's a LOT of accountants!

 

A modular approach is needed me thinks.